But religions do say violence is ok. Hell, suicide bombers like the ones in 9/11 kill because they think they'll be rewarded in Heaven with 72 virgins. How is religion not promoting violence there?

There are thousands or religions out there, some of them are based off nothing else but violence. According to the media and the government, anything that shows or talks about violence promotes it, or at least that's their explanation when it comes to Video Games and Rap/Rock Music. According to their own reasoning movie like "The Passion of the Christ" promotes violence, and many religious books like the Bible promotes violence because they have stories about people being stoned to death, eaten alive by lions, and many many many more.

Even the widely accepted religions promote violence: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html The site is nothing but violent and cruelty references made in the bible.

Religion is very much about promoting violence. Just because they all don't go out and say "Kill everyone to get into heaven" doesn't mean they're not promoting violence.

Lobuk:

But religions do say violence is ok. Hell, suicide bombers like the ones in 9/11 kill because they think they'll be rewarded in Heaven with 72 virgins. How is religion not promoting violence there?

There are thousands or religions out there, some of them are based off nothing else but violence. According to the media and the government, anything that shows or talks about violence promotes it, or at least that's their explanation when it comes to Video Games and Rap/Rock Music. According to their own reasoning movie like "The Passion of the Christ" promotes violence, and many religious books like the Bible promotes violence because they have stories about people being stoned to death, eaten alive by lions, and many many many more.

Even the widely accepted religions promote violence: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html The site is nothing but violent and cruelty references made in the bible.

Religion is very much about promoting violence. Just because they all don't go out and say "Kill everyone to get into heaven" doesn't mean they're not promoting violence.

I totally agree with you Lobuk, Religions do promote Violence.

---

i dont think that religions actually promote violence but only the fanatists of those religions

---

myspace.com/al_x_planet

hustla:

i dont think that religions actually promote violence but only the fanatists of those religions

No, they promote it. So do video games. Anything that shows or tells something to a large group of people are promoting that something. That's what promotion is. It might not be their intention, they might not want to promote that something, and they might not want that something to be what's focused on, but by making it known to many people it's promoted.

Think of it like this, you have a Naruto sig. You probably just have it there just because you like Naruto or you think the sig looks cool, but at the same time it's promoting Naruto to anyone seeing it.

There are probably some religions out there that promote violence. But just because a religion has violence in its history does not mean it promotes it. What is promotion? Yes promotion involves showing to the public, but to promote something also means to agree, condone, and want others to get in on it also right? Well take the bible for example. In the bible it does mention people getting stoned to death, crucifixions and other violence indeed, these are all things people have done and not all people are good because they believe in a religion. It goes back to what i was saying about the radicals. But in Christianity they do not promote violence and killing in any way. Yes violence has happened throughout its history as with many other religions, but the religion of Christianity promotes quite the opposite of violence. It teaches to love, help, and treat others as you would like to be treated. Also not long after the 9/11 attacks, on the news they were interviewing an arab family about how they are being treated here in the U.S. after the attacks. They said obviously they are being treated awfully and also that their religion does not teach muslims to use violence like the terrorists in 9/11 have. So many muslims are being stereotyped as beliveing in exactly what the radicals have misinterpreted. LIke i said there will always be bad apples in religions. But to me promoting violence and radicals causing violence in name of religion, are two very separate and different things.

---

[]D [] []V[] []D

Yeah Cobalt,that's what I would've said. Promoting violence means to sort of like....encourage violence. All things and everything has something negative about it,but it doesn't mean it's promoting it. I know this is a stupid example,but like in DMC3,it has Arkham trying to open doors to the demon world,and also has Vergil wanting more power...And Dante doesn't want that and it leads to Dante almost killing Vergil...But it doesn't mean that DMC3 is "promoting" to try to open the demon world,nor does it try to promote wanting power and your brother having to kill you!

I also agree with cobalt

---

Sadly lobuk, many canadians that i know harbor anti-american feelings. i'm not sure why. as for different religions, thats not a topic im going to touch with a ten foot pole because we would just get in a fight and honestly, your really an ok guy(for a canadian anyway) in my book and i agree with many things that you have said in previous posts. 9/11 was a Horrible tragedy that deserves to be remembered. but (please take no offence to what i am about to say) i fear it was built around ideas that the government hoped would lead us to war. to me what makes this fact even sadder is that we have lost 2500 (not a small number) young men and women who went off to that country. i'll be the first to tell you that i was for the war five years ago, but things have changed it's getting ridiculous. Were losing support from england, we never had support from canada(no insult intended, as i see why you wouldent want to lose your brothers and fathers to war) we have done enough, and there is always going to be some crazy psychopath that wants to blow up buildings.

P.S. on religion, i don't believe that certain religions are evil. However, some religions make controlling thier followers MUCH easier. letting the pschopaths control semmingly innocent people.

---

I know great sig huh?

No, we're getting mixed up in the meaning. Promoting something isn't intentional and isn't always the desired results. According to Webster's (even I hate myself now after saying those words) to promote something is "to make publicly and generally known". Therefore religions promote violence.

Again, I'm not saying religions have bad intentions. As with most things it's the humans that get involved that decide how to take things and how far to take them as well. But just by making the violent acts known is promoting them. Again, religion is not a bad thing, most of the time, if anything most religions set up a bunch of rules like the Ten Commandments that is a really good thing. But religions, even Christianity which the majority of the people of the world are and don't cause much damage, promote violence and create extremists that do things like 9/11.

In cases like 9/11, it's no so much religion that causes the problems, but the clash of different religions.

 

My main problem with religion is that the majority of so-called religious people you ask "why do you believe in this religion" will say something like "I don't know" or "Because I've always been taught it" or "because it's weirdly accepted and has been for many many years". Religion is something that really strongly affects your life, and that's why I think people should make up their own mind. They shouldn't be taught religion at a young age, it's like some countries that enroll their children in military camps to make them hate another country, they should leave their mind pure. Then, at a certain age, present them with the teachings of most major religions and ask them which they would chose to believe them. You shouldn't be a religion just because you're parents were.

That said, there are those like me who were taught a certain religion, but found it too hard to believe so lost their faith. And there are those who were never taught religion or taught a completely different one then the one they choose to believe.

I don't care what your faith as long as:
A: It doesn't hurt anyone
B. You choose that faith yourself, and not just because you've always been taught it was the right one
C. It's not scientology. I can respect everyone's choice, but damn it, you gotta draw the line somewhere. And evil aliens being flown to earth on 747 Jets and then killed in volcano's, then their spirits caught in "spirit catchers" and being trapped in the minds of people causing all our depression so we have to pay the church to heal us.... I... mean... COME ON!

Kuraudo is right, there are two things that will always cause conflict. And thats Religion and Politics. I wont say anymore about either as we dont need any more fights among our online community lol. But yes we all probably could talk,debate, or argue for a very long time on the subjects but i have said my peace and its best i stay out of it from now on lol.

---

[]D [] []V[] []D

Aww, that's not fair. This is one of the best debates I've been involved in since joining SoS, I can't remember the last time I've had this much fun (online).

But yeah, Kuraudo is right. Religion and Politics will always cause conflicts, even if were to magically get rid of these two catalysts, humans are violent by nature.

Lobuk:

Aww, that's not fair. This is one of the best debates I've been involved in since joining SoS, I can't remember the last time I've had this much fun (online).

But yeah, Kuraudo is right. Religion and Politics will always cause conflicts, even if were to magically get rid of these two catalysts, humans are violent by nature.

Lobuk, this is a good conversation.
now i'll say my piece on people who have "lost thier faith". Faith is a strange word. it means many different things to different people, to some it is believing in the absolute unbelievable, i think thats not right. to some it is an understanding that there are times when you will doubt whatever you believe is your god or gods, but still follow a path and have something to believe in.your generalization of two different types of people (those who lose thier "faith" and those who are taught it from birth) is not fair (in my opinion). thier are many people in one religion that believe different things. take me for example (i only use me because i know me best...not because im trying to shove my religious garble down your throat). i think ive been in church only one time. Priests are some of the biggest thieves inhabiting this planet (not all, just the few that ive known). you will take for instance, "the catholic priests whos "faith" never waiver" then they walk out of the room and touch little boys....yea thats SO what god wants to see. my faith is personel to me. i hold it dear. I talk to my god and read a book, but i don't go to church or give money. you'll have to forgive me if i made a hypocritical mistake and generalized catholic priests. The only people i know who have lost there faith(none are from canada though LOL) have a grudge against god, like he let them down or something. however, you did say that you were taught a religion at birth and decided it was to unbelievable. so you seem legitament in your case. although i suspect thats why you like these kinds of conversations, not because you want to have religion shoved down your throat, just to hear others opinions. unfortunately the only thing ive learned from discussions like these is that people hold very strong on to what they believe and often times (unfortunately) keep to closed a mind on others beliefs. ive discussed my faith with you, but im curious if you believe in anything at all , life after death, a supreme being, a hell? Again, i know im getting redundent, i don't wish to shove anything down your throat. merely, hear your belief and why.

---

I know great sig huh?

I'm hardly on now, but I just saw this post and well I do have 2 cents to say. This is coming from a American, Black male, and A Texan, the same state, sadly Bush is from... Devilmaycry 3 I'm sorry your bday is on 9/11. It was a fucked up day for americans, but what makes me mad is the fact that nothing has been done. Ground Zero, and finding Bin Laden. I'm going to ignore the religous post for now, only because logic and religion mix like oil and water. The fact that it has been 5 years and we only have a "General idea" where is; is fucking bullshit. If the administration was dedicated to finding Bin Laden, he would have been found long ago.  But guess what, he isn't captured....

I didn't vote for Bush, mainly because he was full of *** and he fucked up Texas, my home. One thing I'm glaf I learned in private school was common sense. 

 

Here's a question: If there is someone who, ran several oil companies into the ground, used to, (still does?) coccaine,  and screwed up your state as governer; would you let them be president? *** no! He was elected because his father was a former president, and he had the money and politcal leverage to to become president. It was said better, "Do you really want a c-d average student with your life in your hands?" When I heard that we were invading Iraq, I knew it was bullshit. What does Saddam have to do with 9/11? Nothing.  BTW, My president admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. It makes me mad, seeing all those people going out to die just so the greedy can fill their pockets with useless wealth. I hate it, and it pisses me off.  I'm sorry Bush is our president, I'm sorry speaking as a Texan and American citzen to everyone around the world.

 

lobuk, you were a little too far about Bush getting a bullet to the brain. He just need to get the *** beating outta him now, along with any stupid *** who voted for him...TWICE.    

 

BTW , don't get me started on Katrina...I'd *** him up badly if I met me president face to face. Anyone can see that was bullshit, and if your going to defend Bush on the Katrina incdent...email I'll meet you...face to face....real life and call your a *** to your ****ing face...


 

---

That was... interesting. But yeah, it's not surprising even his "country-men" harbor such strong feelings against him. Bush is just a terrible president. Like I said, I take back the bullet comment. If George Bush goes down *** Cheney is in office, and he'll do twice as bad as Bush. All this *** isn't just the result of Bush, it's the combined result of a terrible administration team. 

I have no faith right now. In High School I made the mistake of getting close to the "Religious Group" as they were refered too, I went to their meetings, prayed, went to some big concert thing, etc... Some of it was acctually fun, in a sugary/ "you're evil just /cause" way. But after a while I just thought about some of the stuff I was learning there, and it just sounded like some of the biggest bull *** I've ever been fed in my life. I was given a Bible by one of them, it was nearly impossible for me to find a single page in the thing that didn't seem completely ridiculas.

Maybe it's because I'm the type who prefers facts, that I can't make the jump in faith and beleive allot of this stuff that requires beleif and shuns thought.

A little bit from a good comedian:

I'm just saying, families are aloud to be different. We were told that after 9/11 that's what the government said, that this is not a clash of civilizations. Osama Bin Laden, for example, is the 17th, of 55 children. It's always the middle 20 that give you the problems. But this is not a clash of civilizations? Yeah, we have 2-3 kids, you have 55. We like to have our women in the workplace, you keep yours in bee-keeper suits. What is up with the bee-keeper suits? Can you imagine if some white country, kept their black people in bee-keeper suits? They're be a riot at the U.N., Jesse Jackson's head would explode. Al Sharpten would call a press conference. How does a country get away with keeping half it's population in bee-keeper suits? I'll tell you how, they say the magic word, "Religion".

It's their religion, you say "religion", you can get away with anything. The Catholics got away with ****ing children for crying out loud! Excuse me, they had to have a conference to decide on whether or not they would continue to **** kids. A guy made a speech, he said, "Look, we had a good long run, but it's become something of a meat market. Put a little more lotion on Father Tom, Billy". Look, all you need to know, to see this is a clash of civilizations, is the fact we treat our women so differently. In our society we try and get women to undress as much as possible. We like to be teased. Where as in their society it's, "If I can't have the ***, I don't wanna see it. That is too painful, just throw a tarp on that".

We do give the world the impression that we think American lives are more valuable then everyone else's, which is odd because we're supposed to be a religious people. And I thought that God made humans and not just Americans, but I didn't even know he was a ***. I think people hate us around the world because they perceive we waste when we could share. And they're not totally wrong about that. We are gluttons, we shop with forklifts. We eat giant food off of giant plates. We have a holiday where we stuff food into other food. Thanksgiving is really typical of how we think of third world and indigenous people, we celebrate the one nice moment we ever had with the Indians. It's like a date rapist saying, "Let's focus on the nice dinner we had early in the evening".

Half the people in this country think drugs is what you have to regulate in order to keep us safer and the other have think guns is what you have to regulate in order to keep us safer. But I was thinking, if you had to regulate one thing that has the most potential to cause death and destruction... Religion. You gotta start with religion. I don't say this out of bitterness, I was raised catholic and I was never molested... and I'm insulted quite frankly. I guess they never found me attractive, but I was attractive and it's their lost. What I have against religion, is that they start you when you're so defenseless. I started when I was three. I believed in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, of course I believed in a virgin birth and a guy who lived in a whale and a woman came from a rib. But then, something very important happened to me that made me question all this. I graduated the sixth grade!

I really understand how this nightmare of clerical pedophilia might have happened, 'cause if you're a priest and you spend your entire life spewing this nonsense about the snake and the whale and the apple and the rib, "Oh **** it, just blow me kid". Also, what is so hard about saying the words, "I don't know?". I don't know, of course there are questions that plague all of us, "What happens when we die?", "Is there a heaven?", "Am I on the list?", "Who let the dogs out?". But why would you ever believe what some other human being, whose brain I promise you is no bigger or better then yours, he tells you he knows what happens when we die? "Don't masturbate now because then you won't get to hang out with Jesus in Heaven! How do I know? I've got a pointy hat! And a robe and smoke and a wand" and the whole thing is gayer then Little Richards underwear. Would they just come out of the closet already? Every Sunday it's such a pageant with the wands and the gauntlets and the smoke and the robes and the kneeling in front of another man with your mouth open... nothing gay about that.

Are our religions corrupt? Yes, but I have to say their religion is even worse. That thing about the 72 virgins, that's gotta be the lowest. Promising *** in the after life is the lowest thing I've ever heard in my life. I'm not a Christian, but I do think Jesus is a fantastic role model because he's never said anything like, "And the meek are blessed because they shall get laid!".

TMB:

I'm hardly on now, but I just saw this post and well I do have 2 cents to say. This is coming from a American, Black male, and A Texan, the same state, sadly Bush is from... Devilmaycry 3 I'm sorry your bday is on 9/11. It was a fucked up day for americans, but what makes me mad is the fact that nothing has been done. Ground Zero, and finding Bin Laden. I'm going to ignore the religous post for now, only because logic and religion mix like oil and water. The fact that it has been 5 years and we only have a "General idea" where is; is fucking bullshit. If the administration was dedicated to finding Bin Laden, he would have been found long ago.  But guess what, he isn't captured....

I didn't vote for Bush, mainly because he was full of *** and he fucked up Texas, my home. One thing I'm glaf I learned in private school was common sense. 

 

Here's a question: If there is someone who, ran several oil companies into the ground, used to, (still does?) coccaine,  and screwed up your state as governer; would you let them be president? *** no! He was elected because his father was a former president, and he had the money and politcal leverage to to become president. It was said better, "Do you really want a c-d average student with your life in your hands?" When I heard that we were invading Iraq, I knew it was bullshit. What does Saddam have to do with 9/11? Nothing.  BTW, My president admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. It makes me mad, seeing all those people going out to die just so the greedy can fill their pockets with useless wealth. I hate it, and it pisses me off.  I'm sorry Bush is our president, I'm sorry speaking as a Texan and American citzen to everyone around the world.

 

lobuk, you were a little too far about Bush getting a bullet to the brain. He just need to get the *** beating outta him now, along with any stupid *** who voted for him...TWICE.    

 

BTW , don't get me started on Katrina...I'd *** him up badly if I met me president face to face. Anyone can see that was bullshit, and if your going to defend Bush on the Katrina incdent...email I'll meet you...face to face....real life and call your a *** to your ****ing face...


 

i dont think bush is bad but cheney is dumb he shot a person probobly 2 feet from him beside who would you want to be are pres. if anything (im not quite sure) but i think carlos mencia would be a way better pres. then bush tho carlos gets around if youve ever heard him hes pritty smart people just dont think that because hes a mexican comedien if carlos ever ran for pres. id vote for him over al gore; bush; cheney; all them guys i dont care what anyone says! so who would you suggest be pres!? huh!?!? and acualy saddam did we captured him because he was a big supporter of bin laden and we thought he might know were he is and he did attack us whoss soldiers do you think those guys were!?!?(not the rebelion people)

---

dark slayer: you call me a girl again, i will beat the living hell out of you!
Beowulf: that wasnt supposed to be a comeback, i rarely joke.
Steven: i wouldnt talk, nobody else knows
me so how do you judge me? 2158? that the year if it is i wont live that long duh!